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Monday, March 20, 2006

Palestinian Revisionist Math

I actually have 2 posts (this is my monthly contribution to my wife's Blog), but we will take them one at a time.

The wife and I have been floating around same Palestinian blog for the past week and having fun arguments with the Posters on the Blog (the writer herself is actually quite interesting).
As part of these arguments the talk came up about the horrible things Israel did to the Palestinians in 1948, Know to them as the Nakbah (the great disaster).

We all know the story and we all (thought) we knew the numbers. About 500-600,000 Palestinians Fled out of Israel at the beginning of the war as were incureged by the other Arab states, that they would move back when the fighting is over and all the Jews in Palestine were either dead or gone.

But if that's the case where is the Great disaster?? Well that where revisionist historians come in. And when it come to revisionists, anything goes, and usually the more extreme the better.
So the new story of course says that they didn't leave they were kicked out by the Jews living here. Also it wasn't just 500,000, that is not nearly enough so we raised the number. I have seen quotes that go as high as 950,000!! But Wait there is more, just kicking people out of there house is not enough we need some good old fashioned massacres to complete the Nakbah Story and make the Jews Evil forever. So we add some of those as well. Once again it's hard to keep track I have seen numbers as low as 10,000 and as high as over 100,000!!

Now classic math would say that this means that over a million(!) People were displaced or killed in the area that was Israel after 1949 (at the end of the war). Add onto that the 150,000 people that for some reason didn't get kicked out or killed by the Evil Zionist, and of course the people that were living in the Areas now know as Gaza Strip and The West Bank (taken by Jordan and Egypt).

The problem starts when you try to add the numbers up. The Number of Arabs living in the entire area was no more than 1.2 million (including the later west bank and Gaza). If we take the 1 Million displaced (in one way or another) and add onto that the 150,000 that stayed in Israel, it only leaves about 50,000 Arabs in the entire West bank and Gaza.

But of course I was using classic Math. And just like we can't take history at face Value we should not do the same with Math. So in the revisionist version of math we can add as many Numbers as we want together (and the more the better in this case - to show the Nakbah in Action) and we will always come to the same result in the end.

But why stop there - if we are revising I say Israel Chased out 10,000,000 Arabs from the area and massacred Another 25,000,000. Not Thats a Nakba - I want to see some one argue with me, My Revisionist Math is just as good as the next persons.

tomorrow, kids we will revise chemistry - Water will no longer have to be H2O, we will make it something else.


At 11:31 AM, Blogger Greg said...

Oleh (Vatik): nice...very nice! I've read up about various revisionist arguments from time to time in the JPost as well as in "Battleground" by Samuel Katz, which I suggest very much.

Great work on your research and mathematic revisionism. Maybe next thing we know they'll be claiming the Evil Zionists shamelessly slaughtered 6 million innocent Pallis(or were they still just Arabs at the time:)

Be'tikva, Eitan.

At 1:31 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Well, before there were any Israelis, the Jews living in Palestine were Palestinians too, right? So, I would say that they were Palestinian Arabs, right?

At 5:04 PM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Give them time,
We can't change history in a day, it takes a few years, and we have to do it in small Numbers so that the idiots not paying attention won't notice that the Numbers keep changing.

BTW - The same logic is used today when "kids" are killed in the PA. A pal. Kid looses about 5-7 years of his age after he dies. so that the Girl who was going to school and was "killed" by Captain R (never mind that he didn't). She was 12 when she died, and today she 2 years later she has reached a ripe old age of 4 (I kid you not I have seen people quote that number).

BTW - It just came out that when it comes to numbers we can also add over 1.2 million People into our own Demographic count (see Backspin for the report).

May we all have a good day,

At 8:53 AM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Hello.Nice to meet you. This is my first post in this blog. I find this blog through your wife. I am portuguese and I have never been in Israel or the middle east. For some reason though I became interested in the israeli palestinian conflict.
For 18 months I did post in a portuguese message board..,but I had to give up. I was insulted..,day after day....;
(Actually I was the only fellow in that board sympathetic to Israel).
Antisemitism in portugal is strong.
Back in 2002 , 2003 ,in that board ( wich is the most important portuguese message board ) people wrote too many jews survived world war II.
They were not saying holocaust was horrible. They were saying the oposite : They were saying hitler had not killed enough jews.
And no one did condemn the fellows that say such a thing.
The demonization of israel was total.
People saw israel as a new nazi germany..; People claimed Sharon was the new hitler and the jews the Nazis.
They were so convinced of such truth that some said that the jews should have been exterminated in www II.
And portugal is a member of the European Union.
So vicious were the attacks that I start my own message board.
Back in 2002 I was more pro Israel..;Right now I would say I am a pro Israel..,pro palestinian fellow.
Both sides are right when it comes to certain issues. ( Or both sides are partially right).
When it comes to the number of refugees back in 1947 / 48 I remember reading in a UN report made at the time that the refugees were about 470 000, or 480 000.
Nowadays numbers are tremendously inflated.
Actually the history of the conflict is a source of conflict !!
There is the palestinian narrative, the Zionist narrative and the new historians narrative ( as far as I am aware).
Last but not the least .
I do not enjoy much arguments .
I got my share in the portuguese board and I did learn a lot about human beings in that board.
Online arguments can get very intense.
(One must be carefull , lol).
People do not like to read opinions much diferent from their own opinions.
In cyberspace there are cyber archipelagos, lol.
There is the Zionist archipelago..,(a number of zionist blogs), there is the palestinian blog archipelago...,).

Maybe next thing we know they'll be claiming the Evil Zionists shamelessly slaughtered 6 million innocent Pallis

Back in 2002 / 2003 , people in the portuguese message board claimed the israelis were doing a new holocaust. (As bad as the nazi holocaust).

"In palestine the only thing that still does not exist are the gas chambers "-Claimed a fellow.
"When it comes to everything else the Israelis are doing to the palestinians what the nazis did to them " - That is what people believed.

We human beings are a strange breed lol.
It is very dificult to convince someone that he is not right.It is impossible.
Nowadays I learned to live with that.
Each one of us has his own beliefs when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Pro israelis see things in a certain way.
Pro palestinians see stuff in a completely diferent way.
These are the 2 main groups.

At 2:19 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

sol, first of all, welcome to the blog! I'm very happy to see a guy like you around my parts. It's always interesting to me to see what other people have to say about things. That might surprise you because it is rare, but I'm telling you the truth. I have a degree in psychology, so maybe that tells you a little something about me.

It's also very fascinating to see how dogged people are when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I mean, this is isn't the only "conflict" going on in the world today. There's the Northern Ireland-Rest of Ireland/Great Britain conflict. That used to be a big deal around the world. What about what's happening in Sarejavo (sp?)? You see where I'm going with this, right? I think it's huge for 2 main reason. 1) The coverage that it receives is completely disproportionate to the size of the country. This may be in part because Israel has the only free press in the entire Middle East. 2) It involves Jews. Need I elaborate further?

Just as a side note, it's really funny that one of the board members said that the only thing that doesn't exist in "Palestine" is gas chambers. First of all, as you most likely noticed, by the person excluding mentioning Israeli and just blanketing the country as Palestine, they are, whether it's intentional or subconscious, disavowing any recognition of the state of Israel. Secondly, there almost WAS gas chambers in Palestine. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, back during Pre and during WW2 days, was friends with Hitler. He visited with him, and he also exchanged "ideas" with him. He also swore allegiance to Hitler as he claimed that they both had the same problem in common. They both had a Jewish problem. Now, at first, Hitler kind of brushed him off being that Hitler actually was in favor of the idea of shipping all the European Jews to Palestine. That would still accomplish the goal of a judenrein Germany. It was only later, when Hitler decided what the "Final Solution" to the Jewish question would be that he enlisted The Mufti's active help. Amongst other thing, The Mufti commanded an Arab Waffen SS unit, consisting of Turks and others.

To make an already long history lessong short, the Mufti was very interested in the gas chambers being used to exterminate the Jews. In fact, he visited Auschwitz, and was very interested in constructing such a device in Palestine in order to solve its "Jewish problem". So, if he hadn't been stropped from completing his plans, it's very likely Palestine would have seen a gas chamber on its soil. Only your fellow's got it backwards. It wouldn't have been used on the Arabs. It would have been used on the Jews.

When people compare the Jews to the Nazis and say they are to the Palestinians comparable acts of atrocity, especially Europeans, I believe they are doing it partially out of guilt and the rest out of anti-semetism. The guilt is that if they can show that the Jews are just as bad as the Nazis, they are doing two things. 1) They are showing that the holocaust wasn't unique; not to the people who committed it and not to the time in which it was committed and not to HOW it was committed. That way they can tell the world that not only can the world not hold the holocaust against them because it wasn't unique but that even the people that it was committed against, the Jews, are capable of committing such acts. 2) They are also showing that the holocaust was, in part, justified. As you've already said, people use the excuse that the Jews are doing the same thing to the Palestinians as was done to them, so it would have been better for the world if they had all been exterminated. They can "show" that the Jews are just as bad as the Nazis said they were. In this way, many of them get caught in a catch 22. Many of the people that use this justification are also those that don't believe the holocaust never happened. E.g., Iran. They say things like, "The holocaust never happened, but the Europeans didn't finish the job". See what I'm saying?

Unfortunately, I do not believe that the Pro-Israelis and the Pro-Palestinians are the two main groups. Unfortunately, when it comes to the Pro-Palestinian group, it gets divided, and the Palestinians are once agains used as a pawn in some anti-semite's game against the Jew. You have those who really believe that the Palestinians deserve their own manifest destiny, and I don't disagree with them. I sometimes disagree with their tactics, but as a Jew who has lived in exile, I understand the desire to have a home. And, I sympathize with the plight, but I dont sympathize with the people using that sympathy to exploit the Palestininians for evil means. Then, there's the other group who just hates the Jews and doesn't particularly care about the Palestinians and/or what happens to them. They just want to see the Jewish State eradicated. They don't believe that the Jews should be allowed to defend themselves or allowed to have a home and safe haven of their own like any other group. They are not Pro-Palestinian or anti-Israel. They are anti-semites, through and through.

Watch out for that distinction in your encounters with people; both in person and in the internet world. People like shaggy and his cronies use Nazi comparison tactics and the such to discredit the legitimacy of a Jewish State or tits existance. That is NOT being sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. That is just being an ANTI-SEMITE. Those are the people us civilized human being must watch out for.

At 12:37 AM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Hi : Thanks a lot for your welcome words.
I agree with you. The Israeli Palestinian conflict is not the only conflict on earth. But often it looks that way judging for the press coverage.
Why does this happen ? I agree with you when you write that Israel Palestine is news because jews are involved. And I also agree with you when you write that there are so many news coverage of the palestinian israeli conflict because Israel is a democracy.
Did you visit my blog about chechnya?
In Chechnya 10% of the population (more than 100 000 thousand people ) died in the conflict with russia since 94..., but the press coverage is much less.
I did search for news images of Chechen on Yahoo.
I got 24 results.
Next I searched for the word palestinian.
I got 1778 results.
For each news picture about a chechen there are 78 pictures about a palestinian.
Click here and open the browser in a new window to search news pictures about palestinian

Click here and open the browser in a new window to search news pictures about chechen

The world does give public a totally distorted image of the world.
While one third of the people of Chechnya got killed the world media does constantly remind us about the palestinian victims ignoring the Chechen catastrofe.

As you point out this does happen because of 2 reasons: Antisemitism and media exposure.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
If in a daily basis people see children against tanks...,the image of the country that does use the tanks will be in shambles .

Probably you you will not agree but the israeli leadership is partly responsible for the situation.

in 1974 Arafat delivered a speech in the UN assembly. Probably at that time he had realized already how important is the diplomatic front.

The first intifadah was lost by Israel.

A country cant get the world sympathy with tanks.

Tanks are good weapons to win real wars but they are a good way to loose media wars.

" The message to the international community was the struggle of the oppressed (Palestinians) against the oppressors (Israelis). The Palestinians wanted the international community to get the message that the powerful Israelis were abusing the defenseless Palestinians. I Samuel 17:48-50 conveys the well-known Old Testament story of David and Goliath: “And David put his hand in his bag and took from there a stone and slung it and struck Goliath in the head and slew him.” Dr. Kelton Rhoads, noted social psychologist and lecturer on PSYOP asked an international audience of military officers to think of as many stories or movies as possible where the underdog or the little guy overcomes all odds and becomes victorious. The audience easily came up with countless examples. Next, he asked the listeners to name as many stories or movies where the giant or the oppressor beats the underdog. The crowd was hard pressed to come up with even one. It appears that it has been ingrained in international consciousness "to pull" for the little guy—the one that must overcome the odds and become victorious. The symbolism of boys with rocks and slingshots standing toe-to-toe with Israeli tanks and machine guns is a hard image to overcome. And for most people following the conflict, it appears that it is human nature to support the underdog.

For much of Israel's existence, the Israelis were looked at as the “David” fighting the "Goliath" of the Arab nations. Images of the holocaust were still fresh in the world's mind and the west watched with wonder as a seemingly defenseless, new nation fought off numerous Arab nations intent on taking their new country away from them. However, events following the Six-day War of 1967 in which Israel launched preemptive strikes against Egypt and Jordan caused this image to begin to change. And later, in 1982, although Israeli troops were not directly responsible, they received much of the blame, as the world watched in horror the images from the massacres at Sabra and Shatila, two Palestinian refugee camps in Lebanon. The international community increasingly began to view Israel as the local bully. Friedman (1995) states "The pictures of butchered Palestinians bodies strewn about the filthy streets of Sabra and Shatila sent shock waves reverberating all the way to Washington" (p. 191). So by the time of the Intifada, Israel's transformation from David to Goliath was nearly complete. Neil Lazarus (n.d.) states in his lecture "Israel In The Media," "The international community now began viewing the Palestinians as the David and the Israelis as the morally corrupt Goliath. The Intifada provided the Palestinians the platform for continuing to capitalize on the image of a technologically advanced, superior army fighting “defenseless” children throwing stones." (END OF QUOTE)

The IDF seems not to be aware that if they shot a palestinian in the balata refugee camp the wholle world would knew about it and would see the picture of the victim.
Palestinian TV January 15, 2002
Interview of Arafat

" Interviewer: Mr. President, what message would you like to send to the Palestinian people in general, and, particularly, to the Palestinian children?

Arafat: The child who is grasping the stone facing the tank - is it not the greatest message to the world when the hero becomes a shahid? "

Arafat was totally aware of the media war.
What he was saying was that if Israel kill a child in front of a tank that message would be the best message palestinians could send to the world.
That message would be a crushing blow for israel.

In that perspective the suicide bombing campaign worked against the palestinians. The world was able to see the palestinians were not just the victims they claim they were.

They also kill people .

The study I quote above is very very interesting.


At 12:43 AM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

People like shaggy and his cronies use Nazi comparison tactics and the such to discredit the legitimacy of a Jewish State or tits existance. That is NOT being sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. That is just being an ANTI-SEMITE.

I agree. It is unbelievable what people told me in the portuguese message board.

An example: Six million jews killed do not justify the creation of israel since by 1947 they were already dead so whats the point of creating Israel ? ".

Compared with some fellows in that board Abu Mazen is a Sionist.

At 12:51 AM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Believe it or not one of the few persons that support me in that board was a palestinian from the west bank.

I used to chat with that person.

And he was aware I was no criminal but I was being treated as one. So he left a message saying he was a palestinian but he totally condemned the way I was being treated.
So strong was the hatred against Israel and the jews that a palestinian from the west bank intervened and suported me.
The palestinian friend was living in the west bank since he told me about events 2 days before they got reported in the mainstream media.

At 10:37 AM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Hi solitarioh,
well first of all welcome to our humbe blog, I see you have already made your self at home (it's a good thing).

As for the media coverage, I can say that Israel learned a lot in this past couple of years, not that we are winning the media war but we are not being killed by it anymore.
The truth is, unlike what most people would think, Israel for the most part is very boring news. We have traffic every morning and evening with people driving thier cars down 3 lane highways to go to thier high tech job or to thier office on the 35th floor.
The world love to see it when Israelies get killed, and if not then they want to report how those evil Israelies (who just won't die fast enough) are killing inocent Pal. kids.
Europe (and no offense to you personally) still misses the days when they could go and progrom a jewish town and see those "loosers" move somewhere else, just to attack them again.
Killing Jews is not a sport anymore and it drives some people crazy.
This is not to say that there are not good ones out there. On the contrary, I think most people just want to be left alone and not be bothered with this stuff. It's the few loud Nutcasses out there (with the help of the media) who create this picuture.

At 1:35 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Hi : Nice to meet you.As you already know I used to post in another blog.., but since my views are more pro israeli.., I came to this blog and post a couple of posts.
As far as portugal is concerned.., I would not say people love to see jews killed.
But there is prejudice against the jews, for sure.
In the board I met a couple of nasty fellows , fellows whose sole pleasure was blast Israel.
Since I was the only pro israeli around.., the journey was not easy to say the least.

At 6:58 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

sol, just be strong in your convictions, because these kinds of people would love to "turn you" on your beliefs. I know it's hard, but, together (knowing you have a support system), we can beat hatred and anti-semetism.


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