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Thursday, April 06, 2006

The 5 steps needed in order to Agree with Olmert's Plan

We all have heard of Olmert's Plan the “convergence”, but does any one really know what it means? What is included? How he plans on doing it? What we do know is that it is going to be a big fight over the land, The Orange color will flood the streets of Israel again, and well Many Amonas from now we will have a shattered but well defined "country."

What I bring here is a first draft to a concept that can, if used, reduce the amount of violence that will most likely go on here in the next few years, and maybe allow all of us here in Israel to continue living here. One important note is that this concept comes after seeing What Olmert Is capable of doing when he wants (I.E - Amona) and knowing full well that a lot of people will not stand by idly this time (unlike the Hitnatkut from Gaza).

  1. A map is published showing EXACTLY what is Included in the Convergence, Meaning everyone knows exactly what stays and what goes. In addition an explanation about the places that go, as to why they cannot stay where they are.
  2. Full annexation of the Areas that are to be part of Israel. This means that before any thing else is done, we close the deal on the Areas we know are going to be part of Israel proper, a law similar to the Golan Law (80 Member vote - in order to return it). The idea is to take Sharon's words that “The Fate of Netzarim is fate the fate of Tel-Aviv”, and put into A Law. We don't trust anyone anymore, we want to have it ALL in writing, and in this case in Law.
  3. As part of step 2, get a WRITTEN agreement from the U.S. Congress (nope, I don't trust the Govt.) to recognize these areas as part of Israel including the fact that Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, and As proof of their word, hold them to the U.S. law that states that the Embassy has to be moved to Jerusalem. In addition they have to use their Veto in the U.n. if the issue ever comes up (and I am sure it will), and make sure it gets knocked down. On that note, any other country that we can get on our side would be great, but I don't see anyone else doing that so, oh well.
  4. Rebuilding the Settlements that will be removed, one for one as they stand today. This means that on the day they the settlers (for lack of a better word in English) leave their house, they get on the busses/cars or whatever, and go to a house that is just like the one they left. No more Caravilot, or 2 week Stays at hotels (that go on for over 6 months). This allows also for the community to continue on with a minimum of disruption, and will make moving a lot easier.
  5. It shouldn't have to be said but we are Jews and we have to be told everything ("zachor et asher Asa" ETC. ).Unlike in Gaza, Tzahal continues to act on the other side of the border, in order to make sure that Israeli lives are safe.

Once again This is a first, Very rough draft, it needs work, and Suggestions, corrections are most welcome, I plan on adding and editing this as time goes on.


At 4:05 AM, Blogger anonimoh2005 said...

mmhhh..;I think the best solution would have been to give all kind of weaponry to the setlers and return to the 1949 lines.
Needles to say the west bank anf Jerusalem will caught fire.
After some tens of thousands of people killed..,maybe the world would realize that the setlements were there to stay.
I am half joking but the world does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital Of israel.., the UN does not recognize that fact either..,so I do not see how the impasse can be broken.

Some europeans already started a campaign in order to try to promote europe as a mediator in the Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Needles to say the know full well europe is pro palestinian.

The PA strategy is therefore clear : Isolate Israel diplomatically..,impose a solution on the jewish state , impose a diktaat and in case Israel does not surrender.., choke it through diplomatic, economic sanctions.

I do ot see how Israel can escape such fate.

That is I say hald joking that the only way forward would be to withdraw and leave a bomb in the west bank - 200 000 setlers armed to the teeth.

That is what the serbs did in Bosnia actually.

At 12:14 PM, Blogger Ezzie said...

Not a bad start, and it will be interesting to see if Olmert has the brains to do any of this. I think Sharon would have; I think Olmert would be afraid to, particularly the annexation portion.

One note: One way to make sure there's no violence is to not have violence. There is *no* reason there should be any violence on the part of anyone who lives there, and obviously this is even more true for anyone who does not. Is this realistic? I'm not sure; but overall, violence in Gaza was *very* rare, which was a kiddush Hashem. I think that any Rabbonim will be even more careful to instruct people to not be violent this time around, particularly in light of Amona.

I can't stand the idea of disengagement just as much as the next person, but it bothers me just as much (more?) to see people trying to turn it into violence. We're better than that.

At 2:39 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Ezzie, like I said before, the settlers were not involved in the protests in Gaza or in Amona. It was the people from the outside. By the time the Disengagement came around, because of the Rabbonim's cries that G-d will not let it happen and it's their students' responsibilities to stop, the Rabonim's pleas for no kicking of punching fell of deaf ears. It will only be worse at the next one. Saying "we're better than that" doesn't really mean anything. These are peoples' homes, livelihoods, and birth right. They and we should fight tooth and nail to keep it as we would if any member of Parliament threatened to give up a part of Jerusalem. I understood Gaza. I cannot understand this, especially if it's a unilateral withdrawal as Olmert wants. He will face chaos and civil war if he doesn't do this in a smart way, and my bet is on that he won't. But, it's not happening any time soon. He wants Yisroel Beiteinu in the government to counter Peretz. There will be no Disengagement this time around.

At 4:30 PM, Blogger Ezzie said...

I understand that it was mostly people from the outside - but I don't think the number of people like that will increase by all that much.

These are peoples' homes, livelihoods, and birth right. They and we should fight tooth and nail to keep it as we would if any member of Parliament threatened to give up a part of Jerusalem.

Yes - short of violence, though. Violence in this situation accomplishes nothing. Are we really going to start fighting our own?! I don't believe that. And yes, we are better than that, and it better as hell mean something. If it doesn't, then honestly, there's no point.

Thank God Olmert can't build the government he wants.

At 5:29 PM, Blogger aj said...

Its also important that the settlers cooperate. Yes the people who were violent in Gaza/Amona were from the "outside" but next disengagement, they will be from the inside.

Rebuilding the Settlements that will be removed, one for one as they stand today. This means that on the day they the settlers (for lack of a better word in English) leave their house, they get on the busses/cars or whatever, and go to a house that is just like the one they left. No more Caravilot, or 2 week Stays at hotels (that go on for over 6 months). This allows also for the community to continue on with a minimum of disruption, and will make moving a lot easier.

That requires that when the government asks for help, and for the settlers o give their names, size of homes, or for the settlements to let the government in to scope out the place to know what to build. If settler act like some did in Gaza, believing that it just won't happen, or that applying for compensation will let the government win, then the government can't take responsibility to make sure their lives are picture perfect afterwards

At 5:33 PM, Blogger Soccer Dad said...

There is an embassy law, that the government can issue a waiver for. I'm not sure that it's Congress's perogative to issue such a guarantee and Congress also has no control over the ambassador to the UN (short of confirming or rejecting the appointment.) Bolton will do what's right, the question is what will happen after Bolton; especially if a Democrat wins in 2008.
The other thing I would like to see is no demonization of those who oppose the plan. But, of course, the government will feed Ha'aretz, Yedioth (not to mention the foreign media) all the negative info it can on those who oppose its initiative.

At 2:09 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Dov I put this comment up at Richard Silverstein's site but he deletes anyone that challenges him in any way so I copied it here for you to view.

- Mike
Richard -
He's a ranting dictator whose views of Israeli Arabs remind me of Hitler’s views of Jews. The only difference being that Lieberman hasn’t advocated exterminating them (yet). And how do you expect him to fight crime when he has ethical “challenges” of his own?

Isn't it funny how he refers to Lieberman like this and in the next breath tells you to ignore an exterminationist statement by a Hamas leader made last week and look to the "positive" statements Hamas made in English supposedly.... LOL!

Absolutely not so. If the Palestinians start intifada three (or is it four, I’ve lost count) and terror attacks resume w. a vengeance then you might reconsider this statement. Peace is paramount. Of course, the economy is important. But you can’t have a healthy economy is the long run if you don’t have peace.

Ok in Richard's world attacks have decreased not bcs of the fence but because Hamas, a partner for peace, has a "Cease fire" which one is it now supposedly the 10th 11th or 20th supposed "cease fire"?

Dov you have just realized that talking to Richard in fact reminds me of the very thing he accused you of

Richard -
I’m sorry to say that your comment reminds me to the lyrics of an old song by Paul Simon:
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

Further, it seems any Israeli politician has to be investigated at least by some power hungary DA in Israel or they can't officially be a member of Parliament. I don't know of an Israeli politician that hasn't been accused of some impropriety, from Peres, to Sharon, to Mofaz, to Meretz leadership. But the Hitler line is just too classic for someone who then complains loudly that the Holocaust terminology is "trudged up by the ""zionists"" and Jewish organizations for their own political agenda etc.......
and in the next breath we hear Richard trot out a Lieberman is Hitler line.

Richard -
How is independence the worst situation imaginable? BTW, the Palestinians realize Israel is here to stay by wide majorities in all opinion polls.

Richard will find any opinion poll at any time which is swayed by the timing and the way the questions are asked and then finds 1 or 2 facts in there to justify his "correct" views.... that you are misinformed of actually. Richard has the situation and all the factoids and correct statistics living here in the US and plllllease do not tell him otherwise, you misinformed/ie... poor misguided soul.

And in Richard's world there is no such thing that the Palestinians are scared shit of gaining independence and being responsible for their own situation and not being able to blame everything on Israel.... you see then Richard would say you have to give them more jobs, more $$ more help etc... etc.....

And since Hamas is learnign the clever practice of deception and dangling false carrots than that is interpreted by people like Richard as a great window of hope that Israel must be willing to bend over backwards to accomodate,(and if they don't then it's just more "proof" of Israeli duplicitousness).

You have to ignore the every week comments of Hamas gov't officials and old Fatah gov't as well as state run Palestinian TV and Mosques of rejectionism, martyrdom, Jihad and violence...... and the rampant incitement and hatred................ of Israel and its existence.

Ignore that over there and look over here... and remember its Lieberman that is Hitlerlike or like that Paul Simon song.
Also Richard will delete this and won't reply to anyone who challenges his own hypocrisies.

Either way I'll email it to you since Richard is a professional "cleaner" out of 1984.

- Mike

At 8:42 PM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Thanks for your comment,
Ya it's only sad because this guy is Jewish. I expect better from a person like that. oh well.. I geuss I was wrong about something.

It doens't seem like there is any point going back to his site, He lives in a nice little bubble and there seems no logical way to burst without causeing permenet damage to his little brain.

At 10:49 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

You gotta read this syrupy nauseating post.
And btw, he already deleted my omment at the previous comments section.


At 11:23 AM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Ya, it's funny,
people are clinging on to the Walt Mearsheimer Article, as if it were a Word of G-d, of course those who do that have made up their minds already and all that is left is to find the Article to use to base it on, and this one does it for all those who have wet dreams at night about Israel Falling off the face of the earth, Including - Self hating Jews like him.

- here is my comment to him about it:
"only one note worth mentioning,
The Walt Mearsheimer Article, Has gotten so much critisizm for it’s lack of Academic Nature that, within a few years it will be used in Reasearch Methods Classes - as the Negative example to how to write a paper. In this I am not even talking about it’s content, but it’s style, Including, bad sourcing, taking stuff out of context, Adding information that does not help the Argument, Contredicting themselves, and using methods un-acceptable in Academia.
If I were to hand in a paper like that, I would surly fail."

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At 8:19 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Here is what I posted in response to Dick's arrogant reply to you.
No actually Richard Dershowtiz was accused of footnoting the primary source instead of the 2ndary one, Joan Peter's book. This book is Norm Finkelstein's pet project so he went ballistic... as he does with any prominent spokesman about anything relating to Jews, Judaism, anti-semitism or Israel.... If you're gonna make a statement Richard please get YOUR story straight, while accusing him of hte same thing. Come on man raise the level of your game please, it's embarrassing. (Good thing you have that delete button like the Soviets did)

Second, Rashid Khalidi, was caught Red Handed plagarising. Him and his organization, of which he is President of, then erased the piece from their site on line. However, using the Way Back Machine it can still be viewed. He copied literally word for word large passages of a book extremely old. He then used the excuse that "he didn't know it was posted on line of an organization he is President of, and it was a "mistake" that his name was put on it.

Now, do you want to dsicuss Mr. Khalidi's credibility in the same vein you dismiss Dershowtiz's as well?

Oh and cross posted at Dov's site since youi are a neb jewish p**** who erases any comments that question your "standing" and "logic" and I use tthe latter very suspicously.

Yours truly Richarrrrd --


At 4:51 PM, Blogger Jameel @ The Muqata said...

OY: While possibily a good idea, its so obviously never going to happen, I'm not evern sure the intellectual excersize is worth the digital trees.

1. Olmert will never clearly define everything.

2. The US State Dept announced the other day that the Convergence will be the starting point for the road map, ie. only the start of future withdrawals.

3. (See #2). Besides, regardless of what Congress wants and signs, the US White House and State Dept determine foreign policy. (Just see the written decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem...)

4. Rebuilding? Israel has such a miserable track record on this, its laughable. (or cry-able)

5. Of course it shouldnt have to be said, but we've lost out deterrance.

At 3:43 PM, Blogger Greg said...

Just wanted to say I agree with Jameel. Sharon, if anybody, was the man to carry this thing out-NOT Smolmert. Smolmert is a laughable, contemtible loser from a family of Meretz activists and deadbeat refusniks as well as a son whose run away abroad in order to avoid the giyus.

But even if Sharon was alive, I'm afraid most of Yesha would be theirs within a matter of months. The hitnatkut you're so proud of was a nightmare not only for Israel...It will live on as a nightmare in the narrative of human history.

At 10:28 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

What makes you say something like that? "The Hitnatkut you're so proud of..." Who here has said that they're proud of it?

At 2:09 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Dov -

This guy Silverstein has some nerve. He slurs and slanders anyone he deems "deserving" of it. Then screams that "anti-semitism" is a slur over used. He cries Islamophobia at every turn and more importantly allows NO -0- dissent to any of his "opinions". If anyone dare call him out on his hypocrisy either they conform to his viewpoint or he eventually deletes your comments.

Now he has the Chutzpah to patronize and belittle you for allowing criticism of him at your blog? Who the hell does he think he is? What hypocritical dillusional world does he live in?
Ask him to publish any of the "horrorible" comments "I tried" to leave at his site.

What a clown this guy is.
Here is my latest comments at his blog which he will delete of course.
Good Pesach.



Rich -
You are the ultimate bully and fraud. You say anything you "deem" appropriate about anyone you like but when you get called on it you cry like the neb spoiled baby that you are. And it is not enough for you to try to run an dhide at your site but then you accuse Dov of committing a crime for allowing criticism of you at his site. And then you try to accuse me of "being a fruad"? Chutzpah and cowardess does not even begin to describe the 4 year old BABY you are. Dov is laughing at you as anyone else who reads your wailing would.

Yours truly -


At 2:26 AM, Blogger Greg said...

Olah: you're right. I didn't mean what I said. I'll be more careful with my wording next time.


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