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Monday, May 15, 2006

Immigration Reform

Before now, I haven't made any comments on the whole illegal immigration war raging in the United States right now. I've gotten into a heated argument about it with Am Echad, but I really won't bother to get into here. In short, I am very much against ILLEGAL immigration, and I am against offering what really amounts to amnesty for people who have cut to the front of the line. I don't feel people should get rewarded for cheating. I don't care how good "citizens" they are, since they aren't citizens at all. I don't care if all they want to do is send their kids to good schools. So do the people who come to the US legally. I do believe that there needs to be immigration reform in terms of how long it takes to become a US citizen. On average, it's about 7-10 years. I would know. My mother and her parents immigrated to the US a number of years ago. I also understand the hard work and struggles that go into becoming a legal United States citizen. People who are pro-illegal immigration and "open borders" say that those who are against it are simply xenophobes and forget that this country was founded on immigration. That is true, but it was founded on legal immigration. To say that a given country has no right to decide who crosses its borders is to say borders are absolutely meaningless. But, then again, these are the people on the loony left wing talking. I don't really pay much attention to their ranting and ravings.

To make a long rant short, I would like to present a process of immigration that seems pretty logical to me. I too received this in an e-mail, but for those of you that require a source, Mexico Mexican Immigration, Center for Security Policy:
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language.
2. You must be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers allowed.
3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no special
ballots for elections, all government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are
5. Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount equal to
40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT, your options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign flag, no
political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies, if you do you will be sent home.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down and sent
straight to jail.

Harsh, you say? The above laws happen to be the immigration laws of Mexico!


At 2:20 PM, Blogger menachem said...

it doesnt really make sense to discredit mexican immigrants based on the immigration policy of the very country that they're escaping from.

At 2:23 PM, Blogger menachem said...

and i'm still waiting for you, OC, to sound off on your buddy regreg's opinion about those other immigrants.

At 5:28 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Hey, you noticed that I didn't comment on it even-though you invoked my name. Interesting. In any case, I didn't comment for 2 reasons. First of all, I have been back-logged on keeping up with other peoples' blog, so I didn't read the article until a couple of days ago. Second of all, he apologized for his statements and for offending any-one. Becuase he was man enough to admit wrong-doing and saying that he'll re-think his opinions, I felt that it was unnecessary to beat the issue with a dead horse.

One of the reasons that this is relevent is because a large percentage of illegal immigrants coming to the US hate America, yet they want all the freedoms that Americans would never get if they immigrated legally to Mexico. The whole situation is ridiculous. That is what this points out.

At 6:52 PM, Blogger menachem said...

"invoked" your name? funny. it makes it sound like you're a god.

at the time that i posted the previous comment, he hadn't apologized; at least, he apologized superficially, but hadn't fully retracted yet, as he did in the 6th comment on that post.

when i "invoked" you name i was reffering to you as his ally; a reference back to the Great Umar Debate of April. reading my comment there again, though, it does seem lke i prematurely attributed your husband's dissenting view to you as well, i take it back. did you agree with regreg?

At 6:59 PM, Blogger menachem said...

back to the issue at hand, though.

i don't think a large percentage of mexicans immigrating hate america. even if this proved that the mexican government hated americans (which i don't think it does. i don't see any specific reference to america. only "foreigners," i don't see why mexicans fleeing the country should be held accountable.

again, i DON'T neccesarily disagree with you. i just don't think this email proves anything.

At 7:29 PM, Blogger Irina Tsukerman said...

Sounds like a pretty good list to me.

The only thing is, about number one, the whole point of these illegal immigrants even being allowed here until now is that they are all unskilled and they are doing the jobs no one else wants to do.

At 7:29 PM, Blogger Irina Tsukerman said...

Oops, meant to say number two.

At 8:35 PM, Blogger amechad said...

I'll respond more later but (A) who said most illegal immigrants hate America. That's not true. (B) Perhaps Mexico's restrictive immigration laws are why Mexicans want to leave ... because people want to live in freedom (see Sen's Development as Freedom, which I am reading right now).

Also, many of our parents and grandparents came to the US not speaking English, with loyalty to the "old country" and what about ethnic loyalties such as American Jews waving Israeli flags? Hmm?

And, as I said, my grandfather apparently was an illegal immigrant (he apparently crossed the Canadian border illegally into the US) - should he not have been granted citizenship and my father (born in the US) given citizenship or me given US citizenship?
It's just that now these immigrants aren't your ethnic group (and, I agree with withholding benefits of the welfare state to illegal immigrants, though I would happily dismantle the welfare state for everyone)

At 9:30 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Menachem, how does my not commenting on Greg's post show one way or another my opinion of what he wrote? No, I don't agree with what he said. Israel was created to be a haven for Jews escaping persecution, no matter where they come from, who they are, and what services, economic or otherwise, they can provide for the country. However, I already explained why I didn't comment, but now you know how I feel.

As for my reasons for posting the e-mail. I liked it. I agreed with it, and it's my blog. How's that?

Am, we are already discussed this issue, so I don't really feel the need to go into it again with you. But, I will elicit a few comments. Mexican laws on immigration don't apply to Mexicans themselves, so why would that have anything at all to do with why Mexicans are illegally "fleeing" to the US? As for my grandparents and parents, my grandparents and mom immigrated legally to the US. You are straying from the issue. This has nothing to do with allegiances. This has to do with ILLEGAL immigration. I can't stress it enough. When a illegal Mexican starts waiving a Mexican flag and flounting their illegal status in the face of actual citizens, citizens who pay for their medical bills, welfare, etc, it has nothing to do with allegiance and everything to do with tounting their breaking the law and screaming that they have every right to do it.

That is the core of the issue. I never said illegal immigrants shouldn't become citizens, but the pro-illegal immigration lobby are saying that illegals should be rewarded with breaking the law by getting automatic citizenship, a priviledge not granted to those who work hard to come to the US legally. They should have the right to become citizens, but they should do it the LEGAL way!

I couldn't care less about their ethnic group, and if you're trying to imply something about that, spell it out. I care about how they're coming into the country, and the fact that they want to be rewarded for cheating. That is not how America works. To say that it should work that way is ridiculous. If you look at polls that came out after they held their "May Day" parades, American citizens felt that they were spitting in their faces and now have that much less support for illegal immigrants. My grand-parents and mom worked extremely hard to become citizens. It is a spit in their face to say that because some-one crossed the Rio Grande or made it across the desert alive that they should be granted amnesty because they're supposedly doing work that other Americans won't do, which is complete horse manure.

Let's get the facts and the issues straight before we start assuming what my problems are. Please don't imply that I'm some sort of racist for being against illegal immigration because 11 milion Mexicans instead of 11 million Europeans are sneaking across the US border. It's ridiculous as well as insulting.

At 11:40 PM, Blogger Jack's Shack said...

Pay more and Americans will do the work and the illegals will not be exploited.

At 11:53 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

The only reason Americans aren't able to get these jobs is because illegals work for less. If there were no illegals, Americans would be able to do these jobs just fine. Hence, illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from Americans. Of course, the government is trying so hard to keep American companies from out sourcing to other countries that they would rather have illegals working for slave wages in the US than the companies moving over-seas to pay those slave wages else-where.

At 1:09 AM, Blogger menachem said...

i didn't say you agreed with him. you just seemed upset that i automatically assumed that you didn't. so i asked. that's all. thanks for answering.

At 1:33 AM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Ok, I was just making sure. I didn't want there to be any source of miscommunication.

At 8:47 PM, Blogger amechad said...

You should read this blogpost: http://amishshylock.blogspot.com/2006/05/refusenik-i-say-no-to-border-patrol.html

BTW - if you really want to stop illegal immigration, the best thing to do would be to support economic growth and liberalization in Mexico and the rest of Latin America in order to remove the incentives for immigration. (or let everyone come in and immigrate legally -- no quotas, but I still prefer the former)

At 11:58 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Well, helping Mexico establish their economy is one of the many parts of immigration reform being presented to Congress. One of the biggest first steps is to stop all the coruption within the Mexican government. It's terrible.

At 12:03 AM, Blogger Greg said...

Man...talk about immigrants...AND talk about immigrants...AND talk about immigrants. I don't see anything wrong with immigrants as long as they're legal I agree with Olah. Am: I realize your grandfather was illegal and even may have nurtured pride for his heritage, but we're talking about a whole different issue altogether. Basically Olah covered all the main points so I won't reiterate but I do agree with you that America should be investing into the economical growth of Latin American countries.

Menachem: you want to rub it in real good, don't you!? I mean I thought we had the issue settled but no...You want to make sure everybody knows and disagrees with me. Well, what can I say, do as you please but it doesn't say much about your character.

At 1:38 AM, Blogger menachem said...

my character is irreproachable. like i said earlier, i made that comment before you apologized.

At 10:18 AM, Blogger Greg said...

Olkay, that's settled. I gather you're big on your character:)

At 12:42 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Alright, that's it. Mud wrestling contest right now. Let's go, boys. You're going to settle it once and for all. The mud wrestling contest will be followed by a pissing contest. Sorry, I'm not interfering with your guys' discussion, but I had to say it.

At 2:14 PM, Blogger menachem said...

he started

At 1:49 PM, Blogger Greg said...

he made me mad

At 5:24 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Oy vey...

At 1:46 PM, Blogger Greg said...

Enough said


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