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Sunday, May 20, 2007

Tel-Aviv Firefighter Gets It With A Few Simple Words

A Tel-Aviv firefighter volunteering to help the fledgling fire station in Sderot handle all the fires and damages inflicted by the countless Kassam rockets being fired into Israel's populated cities has this to say about what's going on. It definitely qualifies as the best succinct description of the situation today.
(Source: J Post):
"They are like cockroaches, these guys who fire the rockets. You kill them and others take their place... there won't be peace between us and them, there's not even peace between them and themselves."

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At 5:42 PM, Blogger Brian said...

As a lefty, I know it's commonplace on the left to blame Israel for the deterioration in Palestinians' standard of living since Hamas came to power.

The other side of that coin, however, is that Hamas is full of irresponsible idiots. With apologies to the people of Sderot, erratically firing rockets at their city has no significant effect on Israel. It's fetishized resistance, serving just to make a political point.

At 5:45 PM, Blogger Brian said...


The implication I mean with the above is the unwritten fact that Israel is quite naturally going to fight back to protect its citizens. Hamas probably claims that's what their rocket fire is (I haven't checked), but it has no practical value.

At 8:27 PM, Blogger Chai18 said...

The problem really is that there is really nothing that Israel is willing to do to stop the attacks. The only thing that will work is to turn Gaza into a parking lot, something Israel will not and should not do. Israel can bomb as many pinpointed attacks as it likes from the air and can even go in on the ground, but like the fireman said, you kill this set of rocket launchers and others will take their place. The only real way to end this is to convince the Palestinian public that sheltering kassams will due them no good, and the only way I can think of doing that is to cut off water and electricity from Gaza every time there is a rocket attack. Bombing hamas office buildings and cars just gets rid of one set of hamas leadership but there will always be more ready to take their place. It has been shown that the Palestinians don’t have as high of a regard for human life as the rest of the world so killing a tens of their fighters will do nothing. If you cut off their very means of existence then, and only maybe then, will they wake up and stop allowing rocket launchers to launch kassams. To stop all this insanity Israel is going to have to get its hands dirty.

Who every heard of a country supplying its enemies with water electricity and taxes!!! Only the Jews would be so self destructing to do such an inane thing. Does America send the Taliban or the Shia and Shiite death squads water electricity and money??? Does America pay for Osama’s cave in Afghanistan???

At 12:22 AM, Blogger Brian said...

A problem, unfortunately, is the lack of economy in Gaza, which leaves people largely dependent on hand-outs from the very people you would have them turn against. There's also the fact Hamas tends to kill collaborators.

If I had a solution I would offer it. The first thing you need is for one power to dominate Gaza instead of all these gangs and factions. Israel re-occupying is not a long-term solution. What you'd need is a muscular foreign presence, preferably from somewhere non-Western. Unfortunately, I doubt anyone wants a job that would be nation-building in every sense of the word.

At 12:52 AM, Blogger Chai18 said...

and so it turns out as so many had predicted, the unilateral disengagement from gaza has only made things worse, yes israel was occupying gaza but at least it provided a ruling body, now gaza is anarchy, the palestinians are "free" but are they really better off?

At 11:33 AM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

chai and brian, you're both correct. Let me answer you one at a time:
Brian, Hamas is not making any claims that their rocket attacks are to protect Palestinian civilians in the conventional sense. How can they? The majority of Kassam rockets fired from Gaza land back in their own backyard. They freely claim that the Kassam rockets are part of the resistance to destroy all of Israel, and they are hoping that if they can't destroy all of Israel at once, they can destroy it bit by bit by forcing Israeli citizens to leave and abandon their homes.

The economy issue is simple. The lack of economy has NOTHING to do with "occupation" or the like. In fact, the Palestinian economy did very well PRE-Oslo and immediately began to deteriorate as the PA took over control and sovereignty of Palestinian towns and cities. The reason the Gazan economy is doing so poorly is for the simple reason that the PA has absolutely NO interest in creating a functioning country. They are more interested in destroying Israel. They are receiving more in foreign aid now than before the funds embargo was placed upon them by the West. They are using that money for only TWO things: Weapons and their own inflated salaries. NONE of that money has been used for creating any sort of economy or towards creating a functioning independent state. They are the epitome of the outcome of a welfare child, and the West only enables and encourages it. Israel is not responsible for creating or inflating or sustaining a Palestinian economy just like America isn't responsible for Mexico's or Canada's economy. Until the PA and the Palestinian people surrender the notion that the destruction of Israel is above all else, and until the world decides to once and for all hold the Palestinians accountable for their own affairs, The Palestinians will never have a functioning state. The Palestinians consistently whine about wanting the right to self determination. Well, they haven't earned it and have never shown any willingness to obtain it, or work for it.

As per your solution. Tribes running communities and towns are part of the Arab culture. Look throughout the Middle East. That's how it's run. You try changing it. Unless, there's a cooperative effort b/t the tribal leaders and the government, or the government changes the policies through force vis-a-vie demonstrating that the government is the sole monopoly of force, which is the cornerstone of any democracy, there will be no change. So far, no-one has been willing to do this. There's no need. The government has other agendas, and none of them include governing or pretending they're a democracy.

You're right, reoccupying Gaza is NOT a long term solution, and Israel won't do it. Even if they escalted to another Chomat Magen scenario, they will not reoccupy Gaza. It doesn't serve Israel's best interest, and it will weaken their military capabilities. A foreign force won't do anything anyways. History has shown that that doesn't work. I don't have a solution for you. I really don't. But, if Hamas and Fatah and all the other rival tribes want to kill eachother, I say good riddands to bad rubbish.

Chai, the only thing I can tell you is that you're right, but no-one expected any different, and peace was NOT the reason Israel pulled out of Gaza. It was for situations like this that they did. If Israel was still in Gaza today, they would not be in a position militarily to stop it because they'd be too busy protecting the citizens within Gaza.

At 5:36 PM, Blogger Brian said...

I never said tribes. Tribes matter most in the Gulf states - they're a dead letter in Egypt and points west. Palestinians still maintain a tribal identity, but I'm not sure it's linked to politics, which is driven more by ideology and economic interest.

At 2:16 PM, Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

No, Brian, it has nothing to do with politics. It's culture, like I said. And, unless the government or the people push to change that culture, nothing will change.


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